Curse

ajc2123 · Jun 21, 2009, 03:08 AM // 03:08

I read the basic guide about being an ele on the forum, but I felt it needed a larger part for Hard mode. It seems lots of people are saying Elementalists are underpowered in Hard mode, and I wanted to guide inexperienced players into the hard mode mind set, and help them adapt.

READ THIS FIRST
If you don't care what you run and you just want to get things done fast, Run Discordway for the majority of the game. Discordway pretty much overpowers many builds, and while perhaps not the BEST out there, it is certainly the EASIEST to run.

If you don't like it extremely easy or don't like to run 3 necro hero's but still seem to have problems, read on.

1) The hard mode role.

As said in the Guide, the Ele's role is greatly expanded in Hard Mode. While in Normal mode a full bar of offensive spells might cut it, it is more helpful to the team in hard mode to bring utilities. You can still put out decent damage, but Hard Mode goes much smoother with the team in mind, and not just your own damage.

2) Know your surroundings.

Bringing skills that are important to the Area is a must. For example, you wouldn't want to bring Ward Against Melee in an area that has dangerous Rangers and spellcasters, but a lack of Melee enemies. Ward of Stability is a great skill, but only in areas that have knockdowns. This seems simple, but if you get used to running builds like sabway or discordway, you tend to loose your sense of area and can easily forget skills to make your life easier.

3) Certain Combos/skills that do work in Hard mode

These are all combos that have been tested by me and works in the proper areas.

Searing Flames Elementalists. Searing Flames is one of the mostly (usually pure) Damage oriented builds that still work in Hard mode. This does not scatter, has infinite burning to add some damage, and is still decent AoE damage. This can be used alone as a human, or slapped on a hero. 3 Searing Flames Hero's put out great damage, but you loose out on customizable support. One or Two of these builds also synergies well with a "Their on Fire!" Paragon to power their damage reduction. If you are willing to drop energy storage a bit and drop a skill, you can bring Aegis to bring party blocking.

Pros: Decent to great damage, same build synergies with itself or burning dependent builds.
Cons: Not much Party support. Practically useless against foes who cannot be set on fire or have high armor against Fire damage.

Wards Mostly in the Earth line, wards can prove to be the deciding factor in living or dieing. Places that have enough Melee to be a concern, Bring Ward Against Melee. With it being a ward, it is in effected by enchantment stripping, stance ending, or spirit killing. This can Only be bypassed anti blocking skills/spells. Ward against the Elements may not seem like much, but +24 armor reduces a lot of Damage from Aoe spells. If you cannot interrupt foes like Frozen Elementals who will spike Deep Freeze, then this is a good damage reducer.

NOTE: When faced with AoE damage it is ALWAYS easier to spread out your heros/henchman rather then trying to negate damage.

Ward against Harm is water magic ward. The only time its worth bringing this elite spell over others is when Fire damage is a severe problem. Otherwise, Ward against melee/the elements are usually more helpful. Ward
Against Foes is a nice ward to place Between your backline and Frontliners. While it seems more PvP oriented, the extra time foes take to get to your backline makes it easier to prepare and counter. This gives your fleshies (Monks, Necros, Mesmers, Fellow Elementalists, anything with low armor) an easier time.

Pros: Wards are impossible to remove by foes, usually nice defensive effects.
Cons: No damage, stationary so you must place them carefully and flag hero's

Tanking

While Usually looked down upon, Tanking works, and helps if A) You have plenty chances to body block (Meaning wide areas with no walls or buildings is harder to manage) and B) You are the only human meaning you can control where your henchmen are without fighting with team members. This is only possible with Knowledge of how body blocking/tanking works, and I will cover that later.

Tanking builds usually revolve around Obsiden Flesh, Stoneflesh Aura, Armor of the earth. There are several builds out there and easy to find at that. You can even bring Silver armor for damage, and grasping earth for a snare to keep them near you.

Pros: With proper use, your team will take no damage whatsoever, meaning you need minimal to no support roles in your party, leaving more room for damage.
Cons: Doesn't work in All places. Proper tanking takes practice, most human teams will not take a tank unless its for a speed clear or farm of some sort.

Snaring
Snaring has a couple of uses.
A) Snaring keeps foes in one area for AoE spells to take effect without worry.

B) Snaring slows the melee foes from reaching your Squishies quickly, allowing time to react/prot/etc.

C) Snaring keeps certain Foes from running away. You might have noticed that in a group of more then 3 or so casters, the monk will run from your melee characters and make it harder to take them down.

There are a couple ways to snare.
NOTE: Making a build of snares ONLY is inefficient. One skill is usually enough, Two is the max I would recommend.

Snare by slowdown.

Snaring by slowdown is usually the cheaper/easier way to snare. While it doesn't keep the foe from moving completely, it allows more time to react or cast AoE skills. An easy snare to manage is...
Deep Freeze. With an unconditional Length, decent recharge, and AoE range, it is an effective snare even with 0 points in water magic. It has a fairly high energy requirement though. It is suggested to use with a skill such as glyph of lesser energy, or Auspicious incantation to counter its heavy energy.
Frozen Burst. While not as effective as Deep Freeze, Frozen Burst is a nice skill when you are placing majority of your points into water magic. This will be mainly used to cast on Melee mobs that have already approached your casters. Once they are near your squishies, run over to whoever is the target, get close to them and cast the spell. It's advantage is its extremely fast casting time, lower energy, and manageable recharge. When casted at the right time, your squishy Hench/hero, should have plenty of time to get a safe distance from the enemy.
Grasping Earth
. Another AoE snare that is casted around you and not the enemy. When you are not putting any points into water, this is an easier snare to manage. It only requires a spec of 5 earth magic points to recharge when its effect is over, and its always easy to drop a level or two from energy storage to do this. With 5 energy and a good duration with low earth magic, this is my second favorite Slowing Snare. Granted this is a 50% slower hex and not 66% like water magic.

Most other spells are single target slowing hexes and are either hard energy/attribute requirement/or recharge is annoying to manage. Granted there is one interesting skill that extremely slows down one opponent and is useful for slowing kiting enemies.

Earthen Shackles While you can play this with glyph of immolation and earth magic, this is easier to run if you are an earth Ele playing with another class that focuses on burning, such as Searing Flames Eles, Paragons that set things on fire, or RoJ Monks. When Properly used a running monk monster will be rendered useless. Other then that, Deep Freeze or grasping earth are usually better.

Snaring By Knockdown

Sometimes more expensive, or sometimes a One time deal, Knockdowns are another way to snare. Not only can they snare, but knockdowns also interrupt your opponent, and make them unable to do anything for a set time. This can be useful for taking down Support enemies.
Some Knockdowns are...

Meteor At a cheap 5 energy, Meteor is an unconditional AoE Knockdown at target foe. Unless you modify it's recharge with a weapon or skill, The exhaustion will evaporate by the time it is ready to be cast again. Still, at 30 second recharge, its not much of a snare.

Churning Earth Ah that's better. Since in HM foes always have a speed boost, if they are hit by this while moving at any interval in the 5 seconds its casted, they will be knock downed. This usually fits on an Earth Ele with wards to provide not only some damage support, but Snare.

Unsteady Ground I'm tempted to not call this a snare as much as Meteor and Churning earth only because of one thing. They have to be hit while attacking to be knocked down. If used at the right time, you can knock down a group that has surrounded your monk, giving him/her time to run a away. If your monk tends to run in small circles, you may get more then 1 knockdown out of this against Melee characters. Unsteady ground is more useful against rangers/paragons/ casters that attack a good amount, since they will stay in the area and keep getting knocked down until it ends. Not the best Snare, but it works.

Dragons stomp and Earthquake Both Heavy in energy and exhaustion causing skills. They have lower recharge then Meteor, but watch out for exhaustion. The plus side is the range of knockdown is greater than Meteor so it is easier to stop more foes.

Water Trident This is more like it. While it is an elite, if you are going as a water elementalist, this is a great anti Melee skill. Spam this on a melee and watch it never reach your backline. Cast a slowing snare on it and watch it never reach ANYTHING. When the rest of your skills are down you can use this as a water magic 'Flare'. While it's not much, its better then wanding it while your skills are down. Keep in mind its single target.

Gale This is the only KD spell I would even think about bringing. Ranged almost unconditional knockdown for air elementalists that cause exhaustion. Single target. Meteor is probably better.

After looking at these it is easy to tell slowing hexes are easier to use than knockdowns. Don't forget this is only one skill on your bar though. Don't be afraid to bring a snare to slow them, and then a Knockdown to help ensure they never move.
More to come on this guide later.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 21, 2009, 04:40 AM // 04:40

I actually perfer this guide, I needed to find a way to utilize wards and such, but never really got the inspiration :P

Saph · Jun 21, 2009, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Yay, a guide that touches on the fact that eles can do support.

It seems many eles go into HM thinking things will boom boom pop and that's just not that case. Glad to see you hit upon the topic that eles don't have to try and blow everything up for their build to work. Cant wait to see what else you add to this little guide, I'm sure it will be very helpful for those taking the leap into HM.

ajc2123 · Jun 21, 2009, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saph

Yay, a guide that touches on the fact that eles can do support.

It seems many eles go into HM thinking things will boom boom pop and that's just not that case. Glad to see you hit upon the topic that eles don't have to try and blow everything up for their build to work. Cant wait to see what else you add to this little guide, I'm sure it will be very helpful for those taking the leap into HM.

Plenty more to add.

I could use some help with grammer and stuff though. I was really a D english student in high school lol.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 21, 2009, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Plenty more to add.

I could use some help with grammer and stuff though. I was really a D english student in high school lol.

Grammar doesn't matter, as long as you have common sense....AND you aren't a noob! LOL

Saph · Jun 21, 2009, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Your grammar is pretty good. I haven't seen any mistakes in it. Besides, I'm sure people wont mind bad grammar too much as long as the information is still great. xD

DarkNecrid · Jun 21, 2009, 07:32 AM // 07:32

One thing I'd like to mention is Churning Earth. Combined with Glyph of Renewal and you can have a 50% upkeep AoE that knocks down foes in it in HM. Very very useful. It knocks down any foe moving faster than normal, and in HM all foes move faster than normal innately.

Dre · Jun 21, 2009, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Against Foes is a nice ward to place Between your backline and Frontliners. While it seems more PvP oriented, the extra time foes take to get to your backline makes it easier to prepare and counter. This gives your fleshies (Monks, Necros, Mesmers, Fellow Elementalists, anything with low armor) an easier time.

Shouldn't that be squishies?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Squishy

PS: your grammar is fine as long as you don't start replacing letters with numb3rs ^^

Kendel · Jun 21, 2009, 10:34 AM // 10:34

I'm just wondering why you advocate bringing They're on Fire on the Eles which would cause pretty poor damage reduction.

Instead of simply dropping an ele, because if you've got 4 SF Eles (you and 3 heroes) losing a 4th doesn't make much difference over bringing a full Paragon. Back when i didn't use Paragons for damage at all my Ele use to bring Morgahn along with Restoration Chants and They're on Fire. Also means you can use stuff like Hexbreaker Aria.

Wards can only help so much, i've always given my SF Heroes a single ward each, Melee/Elements usually. But they don't care where they place them and they certainly don't care if they stand in them.

ajc2123 · Jun 21, 2009, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

I'm just wondering why you advocate bringing They're on Fire on the Eles which would cause pretty poor damage reduction.

Instead of simply dropping an ele, because if you've got 4 SF Eles (you and 3 heroes) losing a 4th doesn't make much difference over bringing a full Paragon. Back when i didn't use Paragons for damage at all my Ele use to bring Morgahn along with Restoration Chants and They're on Fire. Also means you can use stuff like Hexbreaker Aria.

Wards can only help so much, i've always given my SF Heroes a single ward each, Melee/Elements usually. But they don't care where they place them and they certainly don't care if they stand in them.

I said it synergies with a their on fire Paragon, not putting the skill on the eles bar.

Kendel · Jun 21, 2009, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Gah sorry, i should probably of gotten an early morning coffee before trying to sound intelligent ><

That said you always lack the problem of no MM, and if something isn't on fire you suffer for it. It always happens but even with damage reduction your monks can't always keep up.

I've been using Thunderclap, a Fevered Mes (tempted to try Extend instead), MM and a Command Para. The 3rd hero slot (the Para) i'm really not sure about though. BA Ranger works quite well with 14 Exp 14 Marks, that way you get to spread Burning, Poison and Bleeding. But the Para has some party support. This is for H/Hing obviously but its been working well so far. Wish we had more hero slots so i could customise the Monks and Wars ><

ajc2123 · Jun 21, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Gah sorry, i should probably of gotten an early morning coffee before trying to sound intelligent ><

That said you always lack the problem of no MM, and if something isn't on fire you suffer for it. It always happens but even with damage reduction your monks can't always keep up.

I've been using Thunderclap, a Fevered Mes (tempted to try Extend instead), MM and a Command Para. The 3rd hero slot (the Para) i'm really not sure about though. BA Ranger works quite well with 14 Exp 14 Marks, that way you get to spread Burning, Poison and Bleeding. But the Para has some party support. This is for H/Hing obviously but its been working well so far. Wish we had more hero slots so i could customise the Monks and Wars ><

You dont need MM's but they DO help. I'll post a list of hero's that work well with this guide when I get to posting later today

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 21, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

How much damage do you actually get off of HM enemies with Searing Flames anyway? I seriously doubt it is -anything- remotely close to running over support builds in HM.

draxynnic · Jun 22, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Nice to see a good analysis of HM Elementalist strategies.

One role that you seem to have missed... so far... is physical disruption. Elementalists are almost certainly better at disrupting physicals than Mesmers, just as Rangers can be at disrupting casters - bad for the Mesmers, but good for the HM Elementalists.

Not surprisingly, this involves blind - either from Eruption (which can potentially be combined with wards and other AOE effects like Churning Earth and Unsteady Ground) or from spreading Blinding Surge around. Certainly in the latter case, you'll probably have a lot of skill slots to through in some utility. And don't forget your Battle Standards - Courage serves as a more generic version of Ward Against Elements, Wisdom will help with high-recharge skills, and Honor helps keep smaller packets of armour-influenced damage like those from AOEDOT skills, minions, and wanding relevant.

ajc2123 · Jun 22, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Nice to see a good analysis of HM Elementalist strategies.

One role that you seem to have missed... so far... is physical disruption. Elementalists are almost certainly better at disrupting physicals than Mesmers, just as Rangers can be at disrupting casters - bad for the Mesmers, but good for the HM Elementalists.

Not surprisingly, this involves blind - either from Eruption (which can potentially be combined with wards and other AOE effects like Churning Earth and Unsteady Ground) or from spreading Blinding Surge around. Certainly in the latter case, you'll probably have a lot of skill slots to through in some utility. And don't forget your Battle Standards - Courage serves as a more generic version of Ward Against Elements, Wisdom will help with high-recharge skills, and Honor helps keep smaller packets of armour-influenced damage like those from AOEDOT skills, minions, and wanding relevant.

Ohhh dont worry my friend. I have just scratched the surface of the elementalist arts XD

frozzie · Jun 25, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

is it possible to make searing flames more stronger in hard mode if you add cracked armor (weaken armor-necromancer) and stone striker (convert fire damage to earth) ?

draxynnic · Jun 27, 2009, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Cracked armour would help, stone striker probably wouldn't unless the target has increased armour versus fire and/or decreased armour versus earth.

Desert Rose · Jun 27, 2009, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Stone Striker is probably useless even in that situation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Unless they fixed it since the last time i tested it, it changes all damage (even physical, holy, chaos) from auto attacks to earth damage, but does neither change damage from skills you take or any damage you deal.

UnChosen · Jun 27, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

How much damage do you actually get off of HM enemies with Searing Flames anyway? I seriously doubt it is -anything- remotely close to running over support builds in HM.

I get approximately 50 dmg from the damaging hit against stuff like bladed aataxe , now factoring in the cast time + recharge (1s + 2s), I get 50 dmg per 3 second, which is 16.66 dmg per second. Assuming constant burning, which is an additional 14 dmg / sec, I get 30.66 dmg / sec in total, which doesn't even match up to flare spamming in PvP, and you have to dedicate half the bar to energy management skills to keep the spamming up. All of the other damage skills are even worse.

When it comes to support, eles do have much better option, but the only one in OP's list that I agree with are the air blinding skills. The best option right now is to use ether renewal + infuse health to be an uber healer that can keep the team's health at 100% near constantly. Or instead of infuse health cast protective bond on everyone using ether renewal + burning speed spam to render everyone in the party invincible to any spike damage, including those ridiculous ele dungeon bosses that actually do aoe dmg compared to the scratch that player eles' AoE does.

waeland · Jul 25, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

What about Ward of Weakness - is it useful in HM? I have little experience in HM (yesterday finished my first campaign), but it seems to me that it works great against melee enemies keeping them permanently weakened and it also has good synergy with Necrosis, Stoning and Glowstone. Also hammer warrior can use build with many attack specialized against weakened targets.